Angie Stone: It Ain’t Easy Being Me

“Well, you know it goes back to the very beginning. If you were light skinned you were in, if you were dark skinned you were out. It very well works that way in the industry. You see very [few] dark skinned people on top of the game. Most of the superstars are very fair or mullatto people. You can check your stats. It works that way in the film world too. I have lost almost every single opportunity to star in a film to Macy Gray or Jill Scott because they’re light and I’m dark. I’ve been told so many times that it’s a certain look that they’re looking for. So you can’t even use weight anymore. You can’t use age because everybody’s over 35 that’s running around doing it. It comes down to what is more appealing. I’m only good for the pro political stuff that will afford all of my people from the hood to vote for the right president – or to support whatever because I’m more on their level, so to speak. So to me it hasn’t changed much. Slavery has just taken on a whole new different direction but it’s the same process.”

– R&B singer Angie Stone talks about being dark skinned in the entertainment industry in Bill Vaughn’s Tasty Clips column.

Click here to read more of Angie’s provocative interview.


  1. Love the interview and her regimen of joy, love and living life to the fullest…Go Angie!!!

    As for the bit about it being hard if you are dark skinned…it’s sad but true. Ughh, I just got done talking about how there are too few movie roles given to Black peeps period and almost none to dark skinned actors. It’s years of conditioning but we can certainly stop perpertuating this ignorant idea that lighter is better.

    I hear people say all the time that White people aint comfortable with dark skinned Black but the only negative comments I’ve heard are from Black people. I’ll use my “friend” as an example…he consistently says he aint Black but Creole. We are exactly the same shade and I am 100% undiluted Black . I think he’s an Octaroon but I seriously doubt it, he might be a Decaroon if such a think exists.
    Now I know that it’s great to be proud & to celebrate your heritage; this guy stresses his French and Native American roots any chance he gets but looks at being Black as if it was the Plague. Our White friends are perplexed when he does this (he looks your reg Tyrone) but they take a cue from him and make “Black jokes”. He married a White woman and swears his son is White (he does look Hispanic though to be fair). His Creole parents taught him he was Creole and not Black (by his own account)…his momma was taught she was Creole NOT Black and no doubt her momma was taught the same thing…
    Somewhere along the line somebody forgot to mention what “creole” means and where it came from, I had to tell this brother that all it means is he is mixed coz he thought it was a specific race type (French, Native American with an itty bitty Black). I haven’t gone far enough to say his bloodline was prolly mixed like most Creole in a violent act of rape and while the “evil master” shunned his mixed kids-he gave them better jobs and we the Black community gave them a warm embrace (sounds mean but it’s true).

    We have conditioned mixed kids and the rest of society to think lighter is better. If we as Black people proudly embrace ourselves in all our beautiful shades I believe everyone else will join in.

  2. I believe there is a great deal of truth in what Angie is saying about the lite skinned/dark skinned debate.

    I wonder is it a situation that we as black people encourage because we seem more drawn to out lighter skinned sistas?

    Dark skinned black men have no problem getting roles, in fact they seem prefered coz we view them as sexy eg Isiah Washington, Blaire Underwood etc.

    Its sad that complexion still plays a part in the hierachy. We need to love and support our people in all shades and shapes

  3. Angie is on to something. Lauryn Hill was the one, single, dark skinned sister whose beauty was so profound that even our messed up culture could not deny it. I think that is what drew so many of us to her. Unfortunately, as you can see from the media, they also could not wait to see her destroyed.


    (this is an aside…not the meat of my response) If your friend is from Louisiana, I understand his position or at least his insistence on the designation. You have to realize that there, “Creole” is a cultural classification (not necessarily racial because there are caucasian ‘Creoles’). Specifically, they are the descendants of the African slaves and some African freemen, who intermarried specifically with the French caucasians. It designates a French culture in the West (this is why you will also hear Hatians and those from Martinique refer to “creole”). If he is Creole, then he has all of the color issues that come with it. My mother’s family is Creole from Louisiana. I designate myself as African-American because that is what I am (and honestly what ALL of them are even if they won’t admit it. ) There ARE dark-skinned people with creole heritages-but most creole family’s encouraged their offspring to marry white or light or creole.

    THAT being said (out of the way)……

    I think Angie is gorgeous and extremely talented and I have always thought she was not given her due in terms of stardom because she is dark-skinned. When Clive tried to make her mentor Alicia Keys, I was offended as well because it was almost as if he was saying “we are going to make her you–because she has “the look”.

    All of that being said, I think that people ofAfrican descent (and not caucasians) are responsible for the colorism in our culture. They take their cues from us and it is US who tell them that we believe light is more beautiful. Until we stop that insanity and stand up for ourselves, we will have no cause to complain.

    But I do honestly and 100% believe that Angie is accurate and that she has been “blacklisted” (pun intended). She has more talent and beauty in her voice than most of the women who are supposedly “at the top of the game”.

  4. @Rae,

    Sorry sis but I do want to make sure that I share this with you….Particularly among the French/Louisiana creoles, forcible rape was not as common a factor in the dilution of the African bloodline. The African/Creole women were “kept” women for the most part. The French slaveholders had families and they “kept” the African-Creole family as a second family (albeit an illegal and taboo one). So some of the insanity that you get from the descendants of these women, is the belief that they are somehow “better” because they were not mixed in the way that the rest of us are.

    If this guy is your friend, knowing the above will help you deal with him and understand his “issues” a little better.
    I will warn you though, I have all but given up on most of my family with those issues. Most of them no longer speak a bit of French but hold onto the designation like it is part of their very existence.

  5. Nefertari i agree with you on a lot of things.

    I also think we must be honest-Angie is talented and her career deserved to be bigger but I would not say she is stunning. There are dark skinned sistaz that are beautiful like Jill Marie Jones etc and I think as black people we have become so defensive that even when someone is not pretty we will say they are coz we are fighting for dark sistaz.

    So let’s call it as it is-there are not so pretty dark and light skinned sistaz. Eg:Tiny Cottle is lite but not so pretty and thats okay. So why must we say Angie is stunning when she is not?

    Let’s just accpet each other as we are. There are pretty, not so pretty, ugly, stuning etc and all of it is cool because thats just how we are made

    I think i mte upset some ppl but im just saying my piece

  6. The last time I checked, neither Jill Scott or Macy Grey were light skinned. And Macy Gray’s career seems to be fading.

    There are a lot of dark skinned beautiful sista’s that are making a name for themselves in Hollywood. Gabrielle Union, Jill Marie and what about Jennifer Hudson who is both chocolate and curvy. Seems like Angie is just making excuses.

  7. @Goldilox

    I understand sis.

    However, I have to say that whether or not someone’s beauty is “stunning” is subjective and based on the perspective of the viewer. Having made that distinction–I didn’t say she was “stunning”, I actually don’t use that term because I don’t think I’ve ever seen a human being who I considered stunning, although I think Naomi Campbell is probably the closest approximation if I were to ever use that word–and Lauryn Hill would be running a close second.

    With regard to AngieI do think she is a gorgeous woman with beautiful features–but I tend to have a “different” idea of beauty. I think that African features, “full lips, smooth chocolate skin, slanted eyes, high cheekbones” are gorgeous. So it is a personal preference.

    I lay in the Sun on my deck in the summer and tan. As you can see from my photo, I’m already dark skinned–but I think deep chocolate velvety skin is so pretty and I want it, so I tan.

    I think though that my standard of beauty is so far outside of the general cultural boundaries, that I can completely understand your comment.

    I do think Jill Marie Jones is a beautiful woman. I don’t, however, think she is any more beautiful than Saana Lathan or even Angie Stone. To be honest with you though–I see sisters everyday who I think are strikingly beautiful…and I tell them! (I get some mighty weird looks when I do that, let me tell you 🙂

    Anyway, I do acknowledge your point. I, for instance, think that Ashanti is “pretty”. I think that Beyonce is pretty, I think that Rihanna is pretty, It just takes something extra for me to move from pretty to gorgeous and that something extra is a uniqueness.

    Remember Danielle who won Americas Next Top Model. I thought she was absolutely beautiful.

    I also thought that Eva Pigford was absolutely beautiful.

    Both of them had that little “something” special that rose above skin tone, height, or features. That’s what makes me see beauty.

  8. I like how u think Nefertari, u are very fair.

    Im from South Africa and i find it weird when African americans say that looks like Angie’s are an ‘African look’. A lot of people here are dark but most girls here dont look like that.

    We do have high cheek bones and full lips and a lot of other qualities that other black women all the over have.

    White mediahas promoted that type of look as the authentic african look. They are not completely wrong, its one of the many looks. But what they have done is pick out soley that look coz it seems more exotic.

    Truth is you also have an authentic african look but theydont want u to know that coz they want us to have the “other” complex

    black ladies we are stunning and we need to stop dividing amongst ourselves

  9. It is sad that we have so many simple issues that plague society in a major way. But I have to agree with Angie that when you are dark skinned, you have a lot of obstacles to climb that those who are lighter skinned. But to be fair, even people who are considered beautiful have their issues because they are expected to fill a certain role and if they don’t then people will wonder why. I remember reading where some actresses were scorned because they chose a role that placed them in a position of being an average person and not some knock-out. But I have always admired Angie ever since she was with the 80’s rap group, Sequence. So she is powerful in other ways besides being something someone wants her to be to get where she wants to go. She is a great success.

  10. I think there is definitely some truth to what angie is saying. Being in the entertainment industry, I’m sure she has heard a million times that her look was not good enough. But unfortunately I think Angie actually has 3 things working against her. First it her skin tone, which she addressed, second it’s her size. Before you think it, I don’t think she is fat at all and she has lost weight. But in terms of hollywood standard she is overweight. We all know successful or semi-successful entertainers and models such as Naomi, Iman, Alek Wek, Gabrielle Union, Whoopi, and my personal favorite Grace Jones. These ladies are not Angie’s size. The third thing is really a combo of her being short(under 5’5) and not a having great personality. I’m not saying that like I know her, but I met her one time and when I see her do interviews, she doesn’t come across as someone that I would like to get to know better, and I love her music. But when it comes to movie roles and mainstream success personality plays a part. Again, I think she a very talented artist and beautiful women, that I have supported but it’s unfortunate that she has look that is unacceptable to Hollywood and the masses.

  11. It has been like this for quite some time. Black people are always made to feel ugly. I experienced it and I think I am fairly pretty. Some of my friends who are dark skinned experience this as well. Beauty comes in many forms. Racism will never die

  12. @ Neffie, thanx for your post. It certainly helps me see the situation in a different light. He IS Louisiana Creole, I don’t think that justifies his wacko ethnocentrism but it explains why he thinks he better than a reg mixed person.

    I believe racism will die, we’ve come a long way from slavery and rampant lynching. Racism is dying right now as more and more peeps realise that our psychological and spiritual experiences can be completely independent of our bodies.

  13. Maybe she just sucks as an actress. I am light skinned and have spent many years auditioning for roles I ended up not getting. It’s not always looks. Sometimes the projects are put on hold or cancelled altogether. Sometimes the studios are looking for a bigger named stars or someone owes someone else a favor and they put them in their movie. If she feels it’s about the color of her skin then she needs to go out and create the roles that she wants. That’s the best way to break into showbiz instead of just taking what is handed to you. Go out and create it and stop complaining.

  14. @thatsadditychic

    *smiling–go on and admit it–you didn’t even read the interview did you? You couldn’t have or you would not have made a particular comment–I won’t spoil it for you…

    @Rae, yes sis, he is sick. The sad thing is that his family made him that way. That mentality is part of “the creole way of thinking” and that is why I believe the stories about the Knowles and their treatment of Kelly and Solange…Creoles of Color have serious colorism issues.

    @Liyah…it will end sis. It will. We will make it end by the way we teach our children. Hugs.

  15. I think Angie is very attractive and part of it that is her beautiful skin tone. Angie has some issues that were plain to see on the Fit Club show. Angie the issues of the world are never ending, look for chances to make your own opportunities. Bank roll your own films, partner with other people and get your foot in the door.

    There is some truth to the fact that some people (white, black, brown) think lighter is better. White people think bleached blonde hair and blue eyes makes someone automatically gorgeous.

    Asian people think the asians with the palest skin and more of a rounded eye are gorgeous.

    Indian people think the pale indians with the lighter eyes and slimmer noses are gorgeous.

    Life is way too short to let someone else’s issues poison your mind.

    There is more to that Alicia Keys/Angie Stone story than will ever reach the public. Angie may have blocked some blessings by not mentoring the star on the come up. Alicia may have reached back and brought Angie with her. Angie could have gotten herself some production/writing/arranging credit and increased her value to the company as more than just a singer. We will never know.
    The fact of the matter is in life sometimes it takes MORE than talent to be the ONE. It takes that it factor that commands the audience not every singer has that it factor. But Angie you are blessed with your talent, instead of wondering why Jill Scott got a role, how about praising God for their opportunities because you know like I know that they have heard a million no’s to that one yes. And if they can get a yes, then YOU can too.

  16. Peace and love I totally agree with your comments. I think Angie is right in what she says for the most part but I think she is very angry inside and when you are that way it comes out in your actions and words and sometimes turns people away from you no matter your beauty or talent. Someone like Whoppi Goldberg has made a nice career for herself and she is a dark skinned woman but she seems to have a nice easy going personality and people seem to like her for the most part and I am sure she heard no many times. Queen Latifa is not a size 5 but she has a nice career and she seems like a nice easy going woman who just never gave up. Queen Latifa is in A- class movies, spokes woman for Cover Girl and just doing her thing her way!
    Also I think success takes more than just the shade of your skin, beauty or size etc. I think it is just a spirit that you have to have in just never giving up and keep on pushing and creating a place for yourself even where there is none and just believing in yourself. I kind of feel like from Angie’s statements that she gave up and she is a little bitter and that is sad becuase she has a great voice.

  17. @Goldilocks

    Thank you and likewise sis.
    As for my own African features, I have very strong traditionally African characteristics. I am most often mistaken for a person of the Akan ethnic group in Ghana. I see the resemblance. I have also had a number of people from modern Angola say that I resemble people in that area which I find very interesting since my mother’s family does know enough about a single female ancestor to know that she was listed as being an African from “Kongo” which would have been the Kingdom of Kongo which included what is not Angola (then Ngola).

    I would like to have fuller lips. I think full lips are beautiful. My husband has the most beautiful lips I’ve ever seen–a little bit of envy there but I digress.

    I also realize that Africans on the continent of Africa come in all the shades and have all of the features that we display in the diaspora. I have seen light skinned Africans with keen features. When I say “African” features that I adore, I am stereotyping a bit. In fact, there is a South African actress (I saw her in a movie when I was a teen) who looks so much like my mother that even my father was astonished. (She played Nandi in Shaka Zulu–his mother Nandi).

    @Peace and Love

    you are SO RIGHT about all of the cultures (Asian, Indian, African) showing a preference for lighter skin in their women. That is very telling–particularly because NONE of these cultures showed this preference historically before they encountered European colonialism. It seems we are all sick and we were infected by the same oppressor.

    @those above who said Angie is angry…I agree but gosh dangit wouldn’t you be angry if for the last 20 years someone told you “yes your voice is gorgeous–and I know you are a singer…but your look isn’t right”. I mean for crying out loud she is a singer not a model.

    I’m not touching the Alicia Keys mentor issue beyond this. Imagine in your profession, your company hires a much younger, much prettier, but less qualified woman. They have been refusing to promote you for years saying that your look isn’t “in”. THen they tell you “We want you to mentor this younger, prettier, woman… we can make her everything that we wouldn’t let you become…”

    Heck the fact that she is angry doesn’t surprise me…I’m surprised she isn’t a serial killer by now because I would be beyond IRATE.

  18. pardon me that should say “now Angola” instead of “not Angola”

  19. I think all of you all full of crapt. When Kelly Rowland came out with her CD most put it down and they had not even bought it or listened to it. And she is a very beautiful girl but she is dark. Some people on this blog a brown sista blog went so far as too say she aint no Beyonce. So now we are going too all comment on this in the way that we are suppose to but the reality of it is no one will go out and support that dark skin sister. We have two huge superstars that are black and they both sound like they have sinus problems but they are both light. But every step they make we record it like they are the second coming or something. Then you have someone like Angie Stone come out with an album a smoking bad azz album and nothing. I bet no one even thought too check it out. She makes the same kind of music Alicia Keys make but yet Alicia is the start. So let’s get real with ourselves and say we won’t or don’t support a dark skinned sister.

  20. …just sorta looking at you with a puzzled look Bria….I bought Kelly’s album and thought it was good. I have all of Angie’s CDs.

    Are you maybe not reading the posts….just neeed to vent? Why so personal?

  21. To: Nef Chocolatepeach

    Actually I did read the whole article and I’m coming from an actor’s perspective. Sometimes it’s about looks but when there is big money on the table it will be about talent and the studios will bring in the best people to make you look great. There are professionally trained actors of color who never get that “big break” or who struggle for 10 years and finally gain some recognition. Actually Angie has had it prettty easy as far as acting because she was already in the business on a musical level. We can’t all do everything. I don’t care what anyone says. Just because she is known doesn’t mean she should persue acting. We all have our own talents. It would be really crappy of me to finally make it as an actor and decided I want to cut an album because of my fame knowing damn well I can’t sing!

    Most real actor’s who’ve been at it for a while are going to resent musician/reality show stars who are trying to take away jobs from real actors.

    Are you in the biz? Probably not.

    I’ve said my piece. I’m done.

  22. I support artist that I enjoy listening to no matter of their skin shade. I have Angie’s CDs, I have Estelle’s CD, I have Ledisi’s CD, I have CDs of people that some probably never heard of. I love music and I support whoever moves me whether they are as black of coal or as white as snow. Music should have no color boundaries I listen to who ever has a beautiful voice to me no matter the type of music or the color of the person or the shape of the person or anything else that doesn’t have to do with the music.

  23. @SaddityChic

    In your original post you said that if there wasn’t an opportunity–she should create one.

    My point to you was that in the article, she specifically stated that she was working on producing plays/movies which sounds to me like “creating an opportunity”.

    My “biz” is commercial transactions law. So if you meant that you are more qualified to discuss the entertainment business-I am most certain that you are. I was discussing reading comprehension–not the acting profession.

    As for your point regarding the way that true actors (professional) feel about stars from other fields taking away their roles–I would tend to agree with you. Being a good singer does not mean a person will be a good actor.

  24. @Tanya

    Ledisi is the bomb. I have listened to her sing and just cried.


  26. @ Nefchocolatepeach

    Ledisi does have a really beautiful voice and I wish people supported her more. Music should not have color boundaries and people should just support who they like regardless of whether they are well known or sell 1 million records.

  27. @Tanya

    You know I really like Shania Twain! I truly do and when her videos come on, I dance and sing. I think she is fly. My husband laughs at it but I love whatever music makes me feel good.

  28. You know what is crazy. As much as SOME Dark skinned sisters are a little self concious, I can say the same for some of the sisters with the lighter skin tone. I went to high school with these girls who were self concious about being light. They would easily offended if some one asked if they were mixed

  29. Being in show business is difficult for all women I think. Sarah Jessica Parker has stated that before SATC she was always cast as the “ugly friend of the pretty girl” in order to make the lead girl seem more attractive. She didn’t have “the look” so they tried to pigeon-hole her. For Mr. & Mrs. Smith, Angelina got paid 10 million while Brad got 20. I can name at least ten men that get paid 20 million per picture, yet, only two women make that much.

    When issues like race, size and color come into play things become even more comlicated. I think that Angie is right. Dark skinned women are very much excluded from the music and movies. The media doesn’t even seem interested in promoting women past a certain shade. @ Skye, yes, neither Jill or Macy would past the brown paper bag test, but they are a hell of a lot lighter than Angie. Being considered light or dark is very subjective. I’m about Macy’s complexion and I had some dark skinned brotha yell at me about “light-skin bitches” being stuck up. Ummm… okay brotha.

    And Angie is right about Estelle. I was shocked when I first saw her video. C’mon how many singers out there look like her? India.Arie and Angie are the only other dark skinned sistas in the music industry as far as I can recall. The ironic thing is that we always here that sex sells, but even the “light and pretty” artists aren’t selling because most of them either can’t sing or don’t sing on their full voice.

    What I think is most unfair is that all women are suposed to fit a certain highly unattainable look, however, men can look like trolls and still get promotion and sell millions of records. That is so unfair to me. Seriously, dudes look like they just came out from under a bridge after a lifetime of scaring Billy goats, and go platinum is less than a week, while women are hitting the gym every day twice a day and reaching for the bleaching cream. Total BS!

    Anyway, I wish Angie well and I will cop her album as soon as my finds are straight.

    Peace & Blessings Y’all.

  30. Candy:

    You said “Seriously, dudes look like they just came out from under a bridge after a lifetime of scaring Billy goats, and go platinum is less than a week,”

    HAhahahahahahah! GIrl I’m crying! Two words..”Lil Wayne!”

  31. @ Candy I agree with you….. that is a whole other issue about sexism affecting women too..LOL! Men aren’ t held to the same standards as women’s not right!

    @ Nefchocolatepeach..I like Shania Twain too..LOL!!

  32. Hi!

    I had to put my two cents into this one. I do agree with everyone on the point that yes, dark skinned sistas seem to get the shaft in the entertainment industry, and seemingly universally. However, it pains me whenever this argument comes up on any forum b/c no one ever mentions the other side of the coin. It is terrible that brown skinned woman get discriminated against, however woman who are light skinned or mixed looking get it too. Case in point, I’m a sista who happens to look Brazillian. While it may seem like I shouldn’t complain or I don’t really have a say in this. I get my share of discrimination too. I don’t how many times, I’ve had castings or talked to people, or have relationships where people said that it wasn’t my sparkling personality that drew them in, but it was my “exotic look and your hair”. I’ll never forget this one particular man I dated who when I asked him, what was the thing he was attracted to the most about me, told me it was my “pretty, black hair”. and what drew him in initially Its sooo insulting i n so many ways. To this day, sometimes I get leery when I get compliments from people, its gotten to the point, where I have become shy in some senses, and I can’t stand getting stared at. Sometimes you want to be able to walk down the street without getting yelled at or approached you know? I know some of you may read this and think I’m just bullshitting, but I just wanted to share my own experience and show another perspective. All women, no matter what nationality, or skin tone, have their share of discriminatory experiences.

  33. Mikela, I just cannot even begin to pity you in the face of what I know darker skin people to go through. My niece right now is so insecure because even though she is so cute and adorable, she is not not light complected is is picked on in school. She is the only Black child in a class of Latin children and most of last year she came home crying. She has also become obsessed with having long straight hair and I kid you not her mom says when they walk down the street her daughter constantly points out women whose hair she wants to have. I could go on and on but you get the point.

    Your trying to ask the world to pity you too because you get extra browny points from the world for being lightskinned and having straight hair is selfish and not fair. You have found acceptance whereas many darker skinned people have not. You are lucky because you live in a world that values you and many don’t, my poor niece included.

    Now I don’t want you to think that I don’t understand your not wanting to be looked at in such a shallow way, I have heard many lighter sisters tell the story you have. But ask yourself, would you ever trade places with the other side?

  34. Dana

    Thank you for response, I appreciate your intelligence and you make a good point. But let me clafify, I was not asking for anyones pity, I was only presenting the other side of the coin. I’m not sure where you got the “pity me” part from. And, yes I would switch places. My mother, who is dark skinned and absolutely gorgeous has told me so many of the stories she went through as a kid, being that she was the most dark skinned person in her family.

    With that being said, I have to say this as well. I think that its sad that when a light skin, or mixed woman talks about her insecurities, that everyone thinks she wants pity and she shouldn’t feel bad. But when a brown skin woman does it, she gets eighty comments of support and love. Woman need support from sistas no matter how they look. As I stated before, all of us go through it. So it makes me sad sometimes, when I see brown skin woman getting more support b/cshe’s considered the “most vindicated”. Iy just seems like its more acceptable amongst us to support the brown sista when she’s in need more than the light sista.

  35. This whole dark skinned/light skinned thing makes me sick to my stomach. If we look at our families, they run the gamit from very dark to very light. My mother was and one of my sister’s is very fair skinned. I remember growing up, my mom had a lady friend who didn’t want anything to do with any of my mom’s children except my sister who is very fair skinned. When my mother realized this, she ended the relationship immediately. I remember overhearing her on the telephone saying that she wouldn’t allow ANYONE to treat any of her children different from another one because of their complexion. I am so grateful to her for that. And I am eternally grateful to my grandmother for teaching us better. My family did not play that skin color stuff. And FYI, for all the folks talking about creole. Being creole is a CULTURE, NOT A RACE. I know creole people in Louisiana who are as dark as night and some who look damned near white. But its a CULTURE, NOT A RACE! I wish black people would get over this bulls—! The only people hung up on skin color is US! We do this to ourselves.

  36. “I do agree with everyone on the point that yes, dark skinned sistas seem to get the shaft in the entertainment industry, and seemingly universall”

    I guess you’re talking about the “American” Entertainment industry where everyone strives to have the “euro” look. When you say “univresal” you seem to be claiming the entire universe which is quite untrue. If you look outside other entertainment spheres e.x Nollywood-the best Nigerian actress (Genvieve Nnaji) is a very beautiful dark skinned woman. I guess Africans have their own level of colorism but Black America’s sense of color is destructive to most people’s self worth and esteem.

  37. @p1tey1 -What you had to say was great but I also wanted you to know that we are not the only people hung up on skin color it is a universal thing. I know Indians ( from India) have the same issues as they think lighter skinned Indians with pretty eyes are better and I also watched a news program about Asian women getting surgery to make their eyes rounder and were also using creams to make their skin lighter like caucasians.

    @ Mikela – I understand what you are trying to say I think it is different than what darker skinned women go through but I think light skinned women are sometimes prejudged like ‘Oh she thinks she’s cute” and people may dislike you for no other reason than the color of your skin and maybe thinking you think you are better than dark skinned women which may not be the case at all.

  38. @Mindplay,

    African women are the foremost consumers of “bleaching” creme and other dangerous methods of attempted skin lightening. African-Americans gave up those practices in the 1960’s.

    At the very least, African-Americans have slavery, a brutal institution designed to strip self esteem, to blame for our state of mental d eath. Outside of colonialism, what is the reason for the African woman’s (including Nigerian) obsession with skin lightener and straight hair?

    I’m not attacking you, but your statement was imbalanced and not accurate.

    Non-White people period, have been assaulted by racism and that is the cause ofthe sickness. Don’t blame African Americans for all of it.

  39. @Dana

    Please tell your sister to get her baby out of that school before its too late for her to recover emotionally.

  40. @ Tanya (my name is Tonya too) lol!

    I live in California and most my neighbors and friends are Asian, Indian and Pakistani. One of the first things I noticed after I moved here was everybody was brown like me. I know that there are people all over the world who think fair skin is better, but that mindset is way more destructive in OUR community by far.

    This is another reason I am so excited about Barack and Michelle Obama. They are changing the game. White women are falling in love with Michelle! That dress she wore on The View yesterday I hear is in hot demand. They are eating her up and don’t seem to care about her complextion. I hope that once they make it into the Whitehouse, black people all over the world will recognize our greatness and realize our true potential and stop all this FOOLISHNESS! Its time to break the chains ya’ll!

  41. @ Dana,

    I have to disagree with you about light skinned black people being more valued. I know black people who can “pass”, and as soon as racist white people find out they are black, they are FINISHED with them. I know this happens for a fact.

    I hope that someone will sit down with your neice and teach her to value her beauty. She can have long hair if she want to. Someone needs to show her how to take care of her hair so that it grows long. Its a myth that black women’s hair won’t grow. Young girls need to be taught how to properly take care of their hair to make it long and strong. There is a TON of information on the web. I live around a lot of Mexican’s too and some of them are just as dark as black people. She needs to know her history, and that Adam and Eve looked like her!!! Whether other people want to recognize it or not, she is special! I hope someone gets to talk to her before its too late. Changing schools is NOT the answer. She needs to learn to appreciate her beauty.

  42. The light skin/dark skin issue is sad and makes me sick as well. I have not read through each person’s entry but what I have read, I have not heard anyone address the racism that we face right within our own race. It is so easy to discuss how white people view us based on our skin color but we tear each other a part even more so than our white counterparts. I mean, just look at all of our b-ball players and entertainment industry folks. Most of their girlfriends or wives are either white, latino or very fair skinned women. There are so many mixed or fairskinned babies from our black men. It is sad. Listen to the lyrics in our music as well. Some of them even refer to half black/half phillipino, etc. (no disrespect to my man Jay). Ok, let’s move from the famous people and now focus on the common folk like myself. I know so many my black friends or encounters that only date lightskinned men or woman. I have a nephew that only date latina women. I simply call it self hatred and we have been dealing with this since slavery. White people set the tone for this attitude or behavior but we have taken it to another level. Remember the stories of the brown paper bag test. I mean the only way you were invited into society organization, Jack & Jill if you were not darker than a brown paper bag. They have changed that policy, I think!! Angie Stone is somewhat right but I agree, Macy Gray and Jill Scott were not good examples. Macy Gray just have a cross over appeal from her music. Jill Scott has not been in many roles. If you do nothing else, just start looking at all our entertainers and I bet you will notice the number of dark skinned women who are not dating or married to these entertainers. Look at Marques Houston, Omarion, John Legend, even Puffy – Kim Porter is dark skinned but she must be gorgeous in his eyes and look how he doesn’t want to marry her. However, he was damn near close to marrying JLo!!; Babyface, Eddie Murphy, al of the Basketball players- Kobe Bryant. Where are the darkskinned women? Right now, I can only think of Denzel & Samuel Jackson.

  43. God..when will we get over this color does not matter, we, black folk are the only ones who make this such a huge deal…we are all black folk..plain and simple. I wish Angie Stone would stop whining…she’s extremely talented, but she’s forever whining or complaining about something….shut up, and do something about it!! Make your own damn films….she’s always the victim in every scenario…she’s too black, she’s too fat, she’s too this, she’s too that…Shut up! Please shut the hell up!!!!! Beautiful ebony sisters like Nia Long, Sanai Lathan, Vanessa Williams, Gabrielle Union, Iman, Cicely Tyson Naomi Camp bell….are making it happen in the industry…the list could go on and on…the color of one’s skin is no longer an acceptable excuse..get over it, and love yourself no matter what…God, this makes me sick, stop blaming the light-skinned people, stop blaming the dark-skinned people, stop blaming the “man”…we are our worst enemies…stop making excuse and get the f@#*off your ass and do something…this subject totally disgust me…

  44. Look at Oprah Winfrey. She never let her complexion stop her from achieving and look where she is. I have to agree with Sharon. Its time to stop the excuses, stop blaming others, and take responsibility for our own happiness!!!!!

  45. One of the beautiful things about our people, is that we come in all shades and colors. All skin tones are beautiful to me. From the shades of Alek Wek to Halle Berry, they are all beautiful.

    True talent, not skin tone or dress size, should be the judge of whether or not you get a role or be offered the opportunity to express yourself.

  46. To Sharon and Others.

    People of color will never get over this color thing as long as the culture of power continues to define standards of beauty.
    We will always have (some) dark skin women who don’t feel worthy and we’ll always have (some) light skin women who will benefit from looking ambiguous.

  47. I’m dark and when I look at the attention that some of my friends(lighter) get verses some of the darker sisters, there is an issue.I see it more with brother’s(so called) they think the world is a video. I have heard many songs that push the”light chick” as the right chic ..I was teased as a young girl but I figurde those people who spend time shuffling color have “issues” themselves. I’m from St.L where it is talked baout but now that I live in the SOUTH…WOW…I heard it on the radio and I have a friend who has had several men come up to her and say”you’ve passed the brown paper bag test” this was in 2006. Don’t talk about PRO-Ball players…they are the worse them it’s like buying the BENTLEY of chics…..

  48. I love Angie Stone but all she does is COMPLAIN!!! D’angelo, Celebrity Fit Club, yada yada yada. Girl, please!! You are blessed with talent and beauty. J-Hud, Jill Marie Jones, Michelle Obama, Whoppi Goldberg, all dark sistahs doing it for themselves. Work on you, put God first, and it will come!!!

  49. I’m dark and when I look at the attention that some of my friends(lighter) get verses some of the darker sisters, there is an issue.I see it more with brother’s(so called) they think the world is a video. I have heard many songs that push the”light chick” as the right chic ..I was teased as a young girl but I figured those people who spend time shuffling color have “issues” themselves. I’m from St.L where it is NOT talked about but now that I live in the SOUTH…WOW…I heard it on the radio and I have a friend who has had several men come up to her and say”you’ve passed the brown paper bag test” this was in 2006. Don’t talk about PRO-Ball players…they are the worse them it’s like buying the BENTLEY of chics…..

  50. This topic is sooo frustrating but we can’t ignore that this colour issue exists. However, just like racism exists we can not use it as an excuse to stop us going far.

    I agree with what Mindplay says because as someone of Nigerian background i see a difference in different countries. In Nigeria the most beautiful actresses and musicians are dark skinned. Even look at the models Oluchi, Temitope, Tonia Adebola and Agbani Darego all very beautiful dark skinned girls.

    In the UK we do see SOME of the richest black men (footballers) dating white girls. But that doesn’t mean that there are MOST that do not. It’s the media that prefers to portray the mixed relationships rather than the exclusively black couples. To be honest i know more that date their own race than outside, its just once again white girls usually get the attention because they brag about gaining footballers and talk about their designer clothes. For instance, recently our beautiful and talented UK singer Jamelia (dark skinnned) got married to a footballer and i had to find out from an American website!

    In France, the beautiful black women that these French men go for are dark skinned. Also when i went to University most of the guys(international students from other parts of Europe) i hung out with liked Kelly Rowland, Malinder Williams, Gabrielle Union, Naomi Campbell and Nona Gaye and their favourite chic was Lauryn Hill.

    Finally, some powerful white men in entertainment date/marry dark skinned black women but the media just doesn’t usually pay attention to that. Example George Lucas and his partner, Simon Cowell and ex Sinita and well u can’t ignore David Bowie and his wife Iman.

    Just like age, weight and race, colour is not an excuse!

  51. @p1tey1

    Yes Yes Yes! I saw Michelle Obama on the View (youtube) and I was so excited. She makes me proud.

    I also agree with you that the baby referenced above needs to be taught to appreciate her own beauty. However, my answer was also correct because teaching a child to appreciate beauty in a culture that demeans her beauty takes TIME and intense EFFORT. It will also require that the child be given a steady diet of positive messages in order to reprogram her thinking. You cannot feed a person GOOD medicine while they are simultaneously being pumped with POISON and expect the GOOD medicine to take effect.
    The child needs immediate intervention, removal from that school where she is being pumped with poison and a new mental diet of beautiful dark-skinned images and ideas.
    Most importantly, the people in her life, particularly her father and the males around her, have to show her that she is beautiful by their ACTIONS, meaning, it won’t help for her daddy to tell her she is beautiful–if all of the women that she hears him comment on are the polar opposite of her.

    I wish I could help the baby. My heart goes out to her. As a matter of fact—I’m going to do something to help her and the other babies like her (will keep you posted…I just decided it). This is bigger than some of us are trying to make it. A woman’s perception of herself goes to the very heart of her being.

    The people above who are saying “it shouldn’t matter…let it go….etc” are delusional. I’m sorry, but you are. While you are correct that it SHOULD NOT be an issue, the reality of the matter is that it IS an issue and it is an important issue. We won’t fix it by pretending it doesn’t exist just because it makes us uncomfortable. Little baby girl’s minds are being destroyed at a young age. That is serious–not minor.

    Dana….please email me. I want to talk to you privately.

  52. Also,

    Oprah Winfrey and Whoopie Goldberg were not in professions wherein their success was dictated by their “look” so they are not comparable. The music and entertainment industry is extremely “beauty oriented”. Angie does have a bad attitude sometimes…or she appears to have one, but that doesn’t mean that what she said was not valid.

    Also…regarding “bad attitude”. Sisters have to stop oppressing one another. Every other woman on the planet can get angry and speak out on it and they are just “voicing a valid opinion” but when a black woman–particularly a dark skinned black woman, speaks out on a valid issue, she is called “angry black woman”, “bad attitude” etc.

    I agree that we have to embrace our ability to be calm, happy, and agreeable, but when something is outright wrong–it is just wrong…and to fail to speak on it for fear of being called “angry black woman” is to enslave yourself and silence the power of your voice. We have to speak on it ladies. Nobody else can fix this for us.

  53. @ Nefchocolatepeach-Good morning! I agree with most of what you have said but I disagree about Oprah and Whoopie being in industries that don’t require beauty. Whoopies is an actress in an industry where they do value beauty and also has issues with ageism. Oprah is just huge now but at some point I am sure her looks were an issue. I just think the difference with those two women as opposed to Angie is they never got bitter and they never ever gave up and they were like yes I am black and I may not be beautiful but get used to seeing my face. Also what ever doors were closed in their faces they kicked them down or made their own path ways and whatever obstacles were put in their ways they went past them and just believed in themselves.

    On another note I agree with everyone that says Angie complains too much..she really does. She always blames someone else or something else when things are bad for her..I remember in an interview she said D’Angelo left her because as he got famous people told him that she was too fat and that is the only reason he left her and she is bitter about that too. She needs to just make her own way when no one else gives her opportunities.

  54. @Tanya

    I see you too sis. (meaning I agree with you as well) but what I mean by that comment is that Oprah’s field, as a talk show host, did not require her to be “marketable” in terms of beauty alone in the same way that the music industry does. When Oprah started, her closest competition (female) was Sally Jessee Raphael, a woman who was not beautiful by any standard. Her male competition was gray haired Phil Donahue. Her field was more concerned with her likeability and ability to connect with the audience.

    Whoopie is in an industry where they value beauty and are ageist, sexist, and racist. Have you ever seen her play a leading lady role that required beauty? No, and you never will. That is not because she isn’t attractive. It is because her beauty isn’t acceptable to the mainstream.

    I would say that Naomi Campbell is a good example of a dark skinned woman who just floored everyone to the point where they couldn’t keep her out.

    But the other dark skinned black women that have been mentioned above, even GREAT actresses like __________name is escaping me and I don’t have time to run a search but she is an accomplished black actress who played Winnie Mandela, played in Holiday Heart…very popular.) They DON’T get the beauty-love interest-romantic lead roles in Hollywood that a “Halle Berry” will get. We know it is not about acting ability, and if you say “well it is because Halle is beautiful and they aren’t…then I have to ask, again, “WHO TOLD US that they weren’t beautiful? WHO made those decisions for us and whose standards are those?”

  55. Nice article. Maybe it boils down to who is pretty and who’s not. There a a lot of pretty black women in all shades. Angie aint one of them.

  56. @Smokie

    Whew…we were typing at the same time but you said exactly what I wanted someone to say.

    Ok….why is Angie not pretty? I know quite a few black men who think she is very pretty. So who told you that she isn’t, meaning, what culture dictates to you who is pretty and who isn’t? When we get to that answer–then we will understand the problem.

  57. @ Nefchocolatepeach-I don’t think Whoopie is the most attrative woman, regardless of the shade of her skin. I think Oprah is attractive when she is all made up ..LOL!! and I think Angie is a pretty woman. So no one tells me who to think is beautiful or pretty it is all subjective. Some people do base it on the shade of someone’s skin, but I am not one of those people. I tell myself who I think is beautiful..

  58. You can hate me for saying this, but although Nef Chocolatepeach can say some interesting things, it really irks me that she is all thru the site like a moderator. You can’t write ANYTHING without her commenting on it. That is so annoying. And it’s not like it’s a sentence or two here and there, but each post is usually a dissertation. I smell a housewife who needs a hobby STAT!

    Does her constant posting REALLY not bother the other ppl on this site????

    Before you respond to me with a 22 paragraph lecture about how you love sistas and want to help and blah blah blah … save it. I know you are great. I know your opinion is the only one that really truly matters. I know you have a different perspective that you’d like to “share with me”. I know ALL of that.

    Geez. I love this site and I’d like to read the comments sometimes without it looking like this is Nef’s personal blog.

    Wait – is it?? If it is, my bad.

  59. @ Nef….. Girl, BYE. I offered my COMMENT — I am NOT interested in having a DISCUSSION and explaining ANYthing to you, period.

  60. @Smokie,

    I would say that you hurt my feelings–but that would be a lie and I don’t lie.

    You don’t want me to comment to you? That’s fine.

    If Stephanie asks me to stop commenting, I definately will. Otherwise, you are entitled to simply ignore my comments and I’ll make a point not to respond to you.


    I don’t either sis (as far as Whoopie) but I was trying to be polite and not say something mean about her.

  61. Maybe black women of all shades should wake up every morning and thank God for makeing us who we are and then we should look in the mirror and tell ourselves I love you. Then after we do that we should look at our daughter, nieces, cousins, and any little girl of color walking around and tell them they are loved and beautiful. Then maybe just maybe we will start to stop caring about what society says about us. And except that there is a reason why there is a billion dollar industry that is pratically based on the way we look. We know it as the plastic surgery aka cosmetic enhancement surgery.

  62. @Nefertari Chocolatepeach – Do you not have a life? It seems like you have nothing better to do than sit at a computer all day and type books for this web page.

  63. @Stephanie,

    Smokie has made this comment regarding me “moderating” her when I commented to her on another thread some days ago about whether men spend money to show their love etc. I just didn’t realize she was the same person or I wouldn’t have spoken to her here. I won’t knowingly comment to her again because nobody needs the drama.

    As I said above, if you want me to stop commenting on your site, I have no problem with that. I enjoy the site for the topics and conversations (I don’t live around or work with many black women), but I know that I enjoy conversing for the sake of conversing and discussing differing viewpoints but some people just aren’t into that so just say the word and I will bow out gracefully.

  64. @Bria

    Your comment was perfect. That would probably go a long way to solving the problem.

  65. Girl, WHAT are you talking about? I rarely comment on here and I don’t even know what post you are speaking about. Show it to me. I don’t need the drama. I just browse this site frequently, and I very rarely respond simply because I don’t want to have to answer to YOU. LOL But, I don’t know what you are talking about. Show me what you are talking about.

  66. @Smokie

    You say that you don’t want drama and you asked me not to talk to you–but you are talking to me again.

    Listen, I didn’t realize that you had a problem with me talking directly to you on here. Now that I realize you do, my response to you is “Ok, I won’t post to you”. That solves the problem.

    I don’t even know you from a hole in the wall and you don’t know me so nothing is lost. I won’t respond to you anymore. That should handle it.

  67. ~Sigh~

    Nefertari, you said:

    Smokie has made this comment regarding me “moderating” her when I commented to her on another thread some days ago about whether men spend money to show their love etc. I just didn’t realize she was the same person or I wouldn’t have spoken to her here. I won’t knowingly comment to her again because nobody needs the drama.


    Did you think that I would be ok with that fact that you didn’t directly address me, but instead LIED on me to the blog owner????? Get real. After CLEARING MY NAME, I will no longer have a need to address you. Peace.

  68. @Smokie

    You are so dramatic for a person who claims to not want drama.

    But your jumping up and down did do some good because after I went back to that post it wasn’t you who said “don’t moderate my comment” it was “Sanchez”, I thought it was you. I wasn’t LYING but I was mistaken and I apologize.

    Let me “clear your name” now.

    Stephanie–I was wrong, before today, Smokie had not asked me not to speak to her so I wasn’t ignoring her request–I just honestly didn’t know she had a problem with me talking to her. But now that she has told me not to talk to her…I won’t.

    So Smokie we are right back where we were after your first post, you don’t want me to talk to you, and I am fine with that.

    What I said to Stephanie wasn’t a bad thing about YOU, I was explaining that I didn’t intentionally answer a person who told me not to.

    Girl, it is just not deep enough for this. For future reference, nothing that I post is done with the intention of talking to you.

  69. The reason im not really buying this dark skinned issue regarding her is that she says she lost those roles to Macy Gray who i really do not consider light skin.

    Maybe there are more reasons as to why Angie is not getting these roles.
    For instance, she can’t act in comparison to others??

    Jill Scott is a very good actress by the way. She played a very good african woman in a movie i saw recently and i was very impressed with her accent.

    When you talk about lead sexy roles and Halle Berry -Let’s be real how many fat,overweight women regardless of race and skin shade can you name that would be considered to play these sexy lead roles?? if you want a lead sexy role then be prepared to have a sexy body, skin shade is not the issue!

  70. Ms. “Smokie”, it’s like this: the reason that Ms. Nefertari will always give more than a “sentnce or two here and there” , and seems to have a comment on everything, is because Nefertari can think. She a “housewife”? Hardly. From what I can gather, she is an attorney… a very literate and well educated lady. That brings us back to the starting point… that’s why she can think. Now when it comes to good lookin’ Black women, you stated that “Angie [Stone] ain’t one of them.” I’m gonna side with Nefertari on this one and ask you, if you would be so kind as to give a reply, who says that Ms. Stone isn’t a good lookin’ Black woman? You? If that’s your opinion, that’s fine; we have no problem. But what me and Nefertari are getting at are the deeper entitties, that we have little control over, that influence the formation of the standards we use to define what beauty is. Here’s one example of what I’m talkin’ about: the media, and to be more specific, the advertising and fashion media. They will show Paris Hilton and her new perfume, thus implying that if you wanna be as good lookin’ as Paris Hilton, then you should buy and wear her perfume. What they won’t say is that Paris Hilton is a convicted felon (drunk driving ), and she’s a high school dropout. Would the main stream fashion magazines ever show, for example, J-Hud endorsing anything? Not for very long, if at all. What about Kim Kardashian? Is she built up as a standard of beauty? To a large extent, yes. That just doesn’t apply with Smooth Thug. Just look at her face. To me, Kim Kardashian looks like a man in drag. If NFL star Reggie Bush wants to be bothered with her, that’s his business.
    What about our educational system? Our educational system is savage, cruel, and blood thirsty. It devalues our languages; it destroys our economic and political self- sufficiency; it destroys our history; it destroys our culture; it destroys the transmission of knowledge of ourselves; it destroys our cultural integrity; it destroys our self-determination; it doesn’t allow infrastructural processes to function. One of the results of all of this is that our own standards and ideals of what beauty is all about is taken away from us. It is then replaced by what white America’s standards are. Am I now writing a “22 paragraph lecture”? Yes I am. But I feel that these things need to be said.

  71. I also agree with Goldilax and Smokie she is not stunning! Lauryn Hill and Gabrielle Union are examples of stunning dark skinned beauty and there are plenty others.

    I am not delusional, im just being realistic. Angie Stone made it into the industry in the first place so has established a name for herself and did this whilst still overweight and dark skinned. what’s changed?? Oprah is in the same business entertainment. Whoopi did it with no eyebrows!

  72. @mymymy (or whatever other name you choose to type in…you people who keep changing names are so deranged and cowardly).

    It takes seconds to type a post. I write 300 page litigation briefs on a regular basis. THAT is work and time….this is a few seconds of diversion and casual conversation. I guess the amount of time that a person perceives a post to take up–depends on how fast a person thinks and therefore writes…

    You see that big old picture there beside my post. If you don’t like what I have to say, then skip over it when you see it.

    @Smooth Thug,

    My Latino brother from another mother how are you? You are always sweet and thank you for defending me, but honestly, in “Smokie” was right about the fact that many of my posts are WAY too long. I always try to get the complete thought out in hope that it will be a better communication tool, but a lot of people don’t like to read so much and I have to remain aware of that.

    Also, email me again please so that we can stay in touch. I lost my blackberry in Chicago and had not backed up on my pc so everything I had in it is gone.

  73. One more thing!

    Her attitude plays a role in her obtaining roles because i really don’t see how she could lose acting roles based on looks to Macy Gray!

  74. Well I think has some validation to what she is saying, most top named entertainers are of the fairer(sp?) skin, but I also know that Angie doesn’t have the greatest attitude @ times. I love Angie’s music, but @ times she can be down right stubborn & uncompromising. When someone goes out into the world to do things there are 2 things that ppl look at & they are the dress & the attitude, if u are lackin in 1 or 2 of the areas you WILL run in to some hardships. I think that Angie is using the race/image deal as part of her excuse to why SHE may have come into some issues w/ furthering her career along…

  75. Jill is so on point. If we let the MAINSTREAM media (WHITE media) define who we are and what beauty is we are a DAMN fool. Every since they brought our ancestors here to these shores they still play the same game of divide and conquer. And the fact of the matter is they don`t give a damn about any of us. Some they just TOLERATE because they fit a certain appeal. There`s a big difference in being ACCEPTED and being TOLERATED… Katrina, if nothing else, should have taught us just where we stand with this nation as a people. From the times of slavery to now nothing has changed.

    The mentality of our former slave masters have only taken on a new path but the objective is still the same. Take for instance the voting rights which they supposedly gave us out of the kindness of their hearts. It was nothing more than BS!!!!!!! The very minute they gave it to us they were plotting to find ways to take it back. Why do you think that they made it a law that if you`re convicted of a felon you lose your right to vote? Then they, with their laws, make it much easier to convict us as a people.

    Then once you`re convicted they can lawfully work you for nothing to repair and work on the infrastructure along the highways under inhumane conditions, i.e. the heat, etc. etc. Look at the disparity in the sentencing when it comes to a white with powder cocaine and a black with crack cocaine. These DEVILS haven`t changed, they`re just more subtle in their evil doing. Even today in their constitution they still refer to us as 3/5 of a human being. Don`t take my word for it read it for yourself.

    Look at cases like Sean Bell and other black men in this country. They exchange the NOOSE for a GUN and their judicial system. It`s called MODERN day lynching. They shoot us down in the streets like dogs and it`s excused as justifiable homicide. As I alluded to earlier if you`re sent to present you give the master free labor, just like the times of slavery. In fact prisons are nothing more than modern day plantations, they just made it legal. When a person/people have evil intentions they never really change.

    Take for instance The U.S. Government`s quest for imperialism and worldwide domonation. They`re murdering other and all nations just as they did from the beginning of time. Take for instance their wars in which they have engaged starting with the most recent Iraq war. Why are they there? To strip that nation of their natural resource (oil) and to colonize it. In the process they will kill women, babies and children just as long as their objective is met. You have to realize what type of country and people we`re dealing with.

    The TRUTH is the TRUTH and it cuts like a two-edge sword. Problem is we, as a people, are so compassionate that we can see the forest for the trees. Once again, take for example their constitution. Those laws only protect their citizens. How many of us TRULY think those laws apply to us? We are dealing with a DECEITFUL people who knows no justice. So if it`s like this in the real world what makes us think Hollywood would be any different.

    These are ruthless people as their wars indicate such. Do you not know they when they shot rockets during the first Iraq war those rockets had uranium on the end? Meaning that they poisoned the water supply and the soil of the Iraqis. Now you have the people getting sick with all kinds of diseases and ultimately dying. Now I ask you, are these the acts of a GODLY person or the acts of a DEVIL? Who do you think Jesus was battling against during his time when he challenged the Roman Government? As they were during the time of Jesus so are they today…..

    “Beat It” by MJ

    They told him don`t you ever come around here
    Don`t wanna see your face, you
    better disappear
    The fire`s in their eyes and their words are
    really clear
    So beat it, just beat it

    You better run, you better do what you can
    Don`t wanna see no blood, don`t be a
    macho man
    You wanna be tough, better do what you can
    So beat it, but you wanna be bad

    Just beat it, beat it
    No one wants to be defeated
    Showin` how funky and strong is your fight
    It doesn`t matter who`s wrong or right

    Just beat it, beat it
    Just beat it, beat it
    Just beat it, beat it
    Just beat it, beat it

  76. Sorry if I got off point. Just had some things on my mind so I had to VENT………..

  77. To:Nefertari Chocolatepeach

    Hey…I was thinking of going to Law School. I will have to apply to schools on the third tier. I have heard many arguments about goign to schools that are not in the top 20-30. What is you suggestion. I know it is of the subject.

  78. @mymymy

    First you disrespect me–then ask my advice. Odd. But I’m going to answer you since it might help.

    If you can attend one of the Tier 1 schools then by all means do so. It can never hurt to have Stanford, Harvard, Yale or Georgetown on your resume. Even so, if you attend one of the lower tier law schools, as long as you are in the top 5% of your class–it will not hurt your resume.

    By that I mean the following.

    Student A attends Harvard law and is in the bottom 90% in terms of her law school rank. She will have a difficult time competing in the job market.

    Conversely, Student B attends Ohio State which is not ranked as high as Harvard but is a good school. Student B is in the top 5% of her class in rankings. She will have more employment opportunity.

    Law firms in particular hire based on your ranking. Your school’s ranking is important but your CLASS rank is just as crucial, if not more.

    I graduated from a Tier 2 law school but I carried a 3.8 average for my JD and a 3.6 for my LLM both of which ranked me in the top 10% of my class. I graduated and went to work for a major auto manufacturer, the state government and a major oil company. So my grades/class rank meant more than the school’s tiers.

    The best advice is try to get into the best school that you can afford, but no matter what school you attend, if you keep your grades in the top 5-10% (it was top 10 when I was in school but given the increased law school enrollment and decreased legal positions I would suggest top 5% at this point), you will be fine.

    GPA, Class Rank, Moot Court, Law Review and summer clerkships play a bigger role in your employment prospects than a single factor like the tier of your school.

  79. @ Blame it on the Rain, I agree with what you just said above.

    Just want to clear a few things now.
    Oprah is at the top of the game- Talk show host- Dark skin
    Naomi Campbell is at the top of her game- Catwalk model- Dark skin
    Venus and Serena Williams are at the top of their games- Dark skin
    Lauryn Hill was at the first ever female solo to win 5 grammys in one year – Dark skin
    India Arie and Tracy Chapman (legend)- Amazing international neo soul singers, song writers- Dark skin
    Gabrielle Union was picked to play a beautiful teenager when she was much older- Dark skin
    Jessica White sports illustrated model- Dark skin
    Judy Pace considered the most beautiful and versatile black woman in hollywood during her era- Dark skin
    Agbani Darego first black Miss World- Dark skin

    There are so many more but i will leave it at that.

    Again the only person stopping her success is herself. No need to blame the beautiful light skinned sistas, thats an insult as to why they got their roles!

    They are many options and alternatives for Angie Stone. She has fans, she needs to do what she is best at and stop complaining. I liked her before, but after her attitude on the celebrity fit club, i saw a different side to her.

  80. *wink and if all of that still hasn’t “convinced” you that I am, indeed, an attorney, ask the blog owner to look at my IP address or check out my state’s supreme court. All registered attorneys are listed. I’ve said my entire name on here more than once. You should know, however, that my address and contact info are also listed–but that I have a concealed carry permit soooooooooo….don’t go showing up on my front door unannounced.
    Shaking my head.

  81. @smooth criminal, love your post.

    Disagree on certain aspects. You have Puffy, successful mogul, however he was the one that chose to use only white models in his European adverts for his fragrance collection.
    He is promoting Cassie like JayZ promoted Rihanna!
    If a BLACK mogul can’t even pick black models is it the white man you are expecting to do so?

    White media tends to use the dark skinned blacks more. It was a white man that discovered Iman and Alek Wek and chose to use them as models. Black people created hip hop and the image surrounding it (clothing, girls in the videos, the love of the ass) the mainstream loved it, no white man can dictate what we think is attractive- that is up to us. Lets stop blaming white media, white men light skinned, dark skin etc and start looking at ourselves within.

  82. In fact…(see previous two emails) I am really tired of “arguing” with people who I would not even deal with in my real life.

    If you are a black woman and you look at another black woman and think “she is black and ugly, Yuk! she has African features, Yuk!, she has nappy hair she is ugly!” I just feel sorry for you. I weep for you. You truly need help…but I accept that I can’t help you. This is exhausting and very discouraging.

    In real life, I don’t deal with people who:

    1. Think that a black woman is ugly because she doesn’t have caucasian features;
    2. Think that a person asking them a question is a burden;
    3. Think that negativity and drama are good to have in your environment;
    4. Think that when a person says “sis, I just really enjoy your conversation” they are BSing.
    5. Think that it is improbable or impossible to encounter a black woman who is a corporate attorney and still enjoys talking to other black women about black woman issues.

    Do I encounter them? Yes. But I don’t DEAL with them. I get them the heck away from me because they are TOXIC.

    So it is stupid of me to do it on the web. The toxicity is the same.

    I feel blessed because I’ve been through a lot of hell in my life and by the grace of God I’ve come through it and I had women who helped me come through it. I want all of us to come through it and support each other. But I can accept that may not be possible.

    The strangest part is that of the people on here who I have had words with–I wouldn’t have even give a second thought if I met them face to face because their energy is so hideous and unappealing. I would have seen them coming and made a detour.

    So I’m going to make my detour. Stephanie I love your site, it is a beautiful idea and you are a beautiful, positive sister.

    Liyah and Lady I’ll get in touch with you about Janet, I have your email addresses.

    Smooth Thug bro, I hope to stay in touch. Keep teaching, it’s beautiful.


    Veronica Nefertari Bennu Esq. JD., LLM Corporate Finance

    (that signature is for the depraved ones here who think that black women only work at Rainbows and can’t be corporate attorneys, for the rest of you its just “Nef” and hugs.)

  83. oh and at little sis Formelry known as “La Domina” and Diddy Kong….stay intelligent and focused. Don’t fall for the BS. Don’t worry about “giving it up” anytime soon, stay you. It will pay off. Just stay YOU.

  84. @Nef

    I a relatively new to this site… but I think there are a lot more positive people than negative. Anyway good luck to you sis!

  85. @Tanya

    There are many more positive sisters on here than negative. In fact I would say the positive ones are the majority. I just limit my contact with negative people generally for purposes of survival. It’s worked for me so I need to stick to it (return to it). Thanks and good luck to you as well.

  86. To be honest, i have not read any comments here which state that people think Angie Stone is black and ugly. People just don’t think she is stunning.

    Africans have different features and its a stereotype to assume we have similar features. Not all Africans have big noses, full lips and big behinds! Just like not all Europeans have small noses and thin lips (Even most of these hollywood actresses get nose jobs eg angelina jolie and michelle phiffer).

    If Lauryn Hill and Angie Stone both walked into a restaurant, i now who i would notice more.

    I have respect for anyone who is educated and accomplished and it is not a shock to me as being Nigerian has instilled the importance for education in the highest standard. Most people i hang out with are educated just like myself as thats pretty much where we met at school, university and work environment.

    But i do find it shocking that you can read into what was not said. In life, not everyone is going to agree with you, you just have to learn to agree to disagree.

  87. @English Babe. It wasn’t directed at you. I don’t think I’ve ever even had a conversation with you on here. I also said earlier that Lauryn is one of the few truly flawless sisters out there in terms of beauty and I stated that I don’t think Angie (or many others for that matter) is “stunning”.

    This is also not about disagreeing. We disagree on the site all the time. I’m an attorney–I am accustomed to disagreeing vehemently with a person, beating them up in court–then going to lunch with them like harsh words were never exchanged.

    My issue is not disagreeing. My issue is exactly what I said that it was (and to avoid another long post, I’m not going to elaborate again–it is up there).

    If you find that shocking–that is your right. I just find it honest and frank. I know when I’ve had enough of a certain energy and today was that day.

  88. English Babe–If you thought when I said “see previous two posts” that I meant yours (it was directly above mine), I did not. I meant MY previous two posts. I hope that clears it up. Now I do really need to stick to my guns and get out of here.

  89. By the way i’m also new to this site and i love it.

    Also glad this post has garnerd alot of attention as i feel this topic is important.

  90. @English Babe

    Yeah I thought about it & ur right there are plenty of beautiful dark skin sistas making serious waves out in Hollyweird right now… You have only validated my point even more, that Angie is just making more excuses for her OWN hangups w/ her career ;-).

  91. You guys are funny. Nefertari aka “I am an attorney”. You are starting to sound like Star Jones. LOL But I love this site.

    Anyone who blames anything outside of themselves selves for their failures will never have success. I am a living witness that with faith and hard work life is limitless. I pray for Angie because she is immensely talented and BEAUTIFUL.

    Click on my name. All are welcome at my blog!!! Comment all you want.

  92. @ Blame it on tha Rain, i’m glad i was able to validate your point about Angie Stone.

    LOL @ Talulazoeapple i was just thinking the same thing. This is just a thread of people’s opinions on a celebrity, there was no need for it to get personal.

    I just checked out your website and it looks pretty good.

    Love your name by the way.

  93. I might come accross as selfish but i don’t really care
    THe entire light/ dark issue never concerned me more than that …

    I was born and raise in Africa My father is chinese and jamaican and my mother is ivoirian senegalese still i came out looking just like my mother with my father’s eyes
    I never was insecure about my skin. If anything as a teenager i felt bad for lighter people looking down their noses at darker persons to me if they knew what their skins meant they’ll have less reason to think that they could fly .

    A lot of us are still slaves unknowingly , and I don’t want to waste anymore time arguing and trying to free my fellows because truth be told a lot of us are happy with being the white man’s servants.

    I know where I’m from AND I know what I represent and I will teach self esteem and respect to my daughters everyday until I die

    The rest matters little

  94. I enjoyed perusing many of your comments but I have to be fair and state, when you are comparing Angie Stone to Jill Marie Jones, Gabrielle Union, Malinda Williams, and even Lauryn Hill, you’re doing Ms. Stone a disservice. The first 3 ladies complexions are brown, not dark brown like Angie’s and they still have European features (nose, eyes, lips). Lauryn Hill’s complexion is closer to Angie Stone’s but Lauryn’s embrace of her own afrocentric features (dread locks, attire) is one of the reasons the public openly accepted her. The public is more susceptible to accept you when you are perceived as different and trendsetting. It would be nice if we could move past this issue but unfortunately, it is a continuing problem, especially within our community. I have never understood it until I saw it happen in my family. My daughter has a very light complexion and my niece moved in with me when she was 14 and her complexion is dark brown. They are both beautiful young ladies but they were ALWAYS treated differently by their friends and even adults. It didn’t matter how many times I told my niece how beautiful she was, the BLACK community told her she wasn’t! Artists (black) in their videos and in their songs, young guys in school, and even women (in public settings) when they would comment on my daughter’s beauty and act as if my niece was invisible. The ironic thing is they could pass for sisters but no one could see it because their primary focus was skin color. She is now 22 (about to graduate from college) and her perception of herself has completely changed. I have to give credit to her attendance of a HBCU. She encountered those same stereotypes initially but her academic success begin to outweigh the negativity and SHE begin to love and accept herself. I would suggest Angie Stone learn the same lesson. Love yourself and D*MN what everyone else says!

  95. Angie’s comments are valid and she has been in the Industry for a long time so I know she knows discrimination when she experiences it. It would be wonderful if she redirected her energy and started her own company to give young, talented women who do not necessarily fit society’s standard of beauty (I’m not saying discriminate against someone if they do fit the mode) and give them opportunities and enlist the help of other artists that have publicly made similar comments (India Arie made the same comments) and others that would enjoy helping Black women succeed in the industry. Start record labels, film production companies and media distribution outlets that focus on empowering minority women.

    Black women, we need to start supporting each other, PERIOD. One commenter talked about Kelly Rowland’s CD and why we didn’t support it (and the album was good), yet, we will be the first to complain when Beyonce’ or Rihanna overwhelmingly garners the public’s support and notoriety. Then we complain that their talents are mediocre. We can look at the Billboard charts and determine we’re not supporting the ladies. Angie Stone, Erykah Badu, Algebra, Ledisi, Estelle and even Ashanti (album is actually pretty good) needs our support. Jill Scott barely went gold on her last album. We don’t even support old school R&B artists. The Rolling Stones can still sell out across the country and Patti Labelle and/or Gladys Knight can barely sell out a intimate club setting. Who is the largest supporter of Jazz music? WHITEs…

    I don’t consider Angie Stone’s comments as complaining, but I do consider us a whole as CHRONIC complainers, yet we are MARGINAL participants when it’s time to be active about any issue. Why?

  96. People are too caught up on skin color. Beauty, like art, is subjective [What you find very beautiful may be the opposite for me, and that’s OKAY]. These terms: black, white, yellow, and brown are BARRIERS used to keep the HUMAN RACE divided/in our place, and those who goes against it are SCORNED. I go along with the program whenever someone uses these terms to define me, but I know them for the DIVIDERS that they are.
    I’m convince I have a different perspective from African Americans because I grew up in the 1st independent Black nation in the Western Hermisphere…hehe lol. Where ‘Black’ public figures are the norm [i.e. presidents, artists, atheletes, news anchors…]. Haiti may be an ECONOMICALLY poor country, but we are a proud people.
    Because African Americans are PERCEIVED as second class citizens throughout US history, some think they have to constantly PROVE their worth to the majority [‘Whites’]. Yes, I’m not an Obama supporter, I’m a Conservative Ron Paul Republican. Is there any Republican in the house lol? One thing that bugs the HELL of me is not only do African Americans get discriminated against by some ‘Whites’, WORSE , they discriminate against EACH OTHER. It goes BOTH ways. Some lighter shade AA THINK they’re better than draker shade AA because of their Eutocentric leaning looks while some Darker shade AA think they’re better than lighter shade ones because they ‘represent’ the Afrocentric leaning look [WTF]. It’s one thing to have pride in the way you look, but it’s ENTIRELY another thing to think you’re BETTER/ABOVE someone else simply because of the color of your skin. What makes you any different from some ‘Whites’ who think they are above BOTH of you because of their skin tone? I put those who think this way in the same selfcentered-bigoted lot, and they deserve NO respect. There are a lot of extremely talented UNKNOWN artists with a VARIETY of skin tone. Every now & than some are LUCKY to experience their dream. Life is not always fair, for if it was all of them would their shot. I have NO time for those who make it & STILL complain. Like Beyonce once said of DC3 & I’m paraphasing “There are some who sing & look better than us. We’re GRATEFUL that we get to live our dreams & we don’t take it for granted” [Besides her beautiful voice & stage pressence, this is why I like her even more as an artist]. You get through that door STOP complaining [some who are just as talented/even more don’t get the chance AT ALL]. You work with what you got; then, you continue to grow, and you find ways to expend, so that one day YOU may give to another the chance that was given to you.

  97. Geez! I take a few days off to actually to my job and I’m johnny-come -late on a hot topic. I only read the first 4 post so someone may have said the things that I am about to say.

    I am a huge fan of Angie Stone’s music. I actually own her CDs. In my pov, she lost some shine when she did the Celebrity Fit Club. Her behavior was horrible. Why go on a show where the objective is to become the best you, then argue from jump with the health experts that it is impossible to get into better shape?????

    As for her comments on the opportunities for light vs dark skinned artist, sadly, I agree. I grew up in south Louisiana where being color struck is an institution, a culture and an industry. Most of my school teachers publicly praised students for their “good” hair and “light” eyes. Usually the teachers’ pet was the lightest child in the class. Ninety-five percent of my teachers were black and most of them were dark skinned! Though I was fortunate to be raised by parents who NEVER spoke “complexionism” like “you pretty but you black”, I still had a hard time learning to love me for me. I actually wanted to be darker.

    To Angie’s benefit, she is a hard working woman who is always touring. She is a good songwriter and is well respected by other artist. In the eyes of this beholder, she is gorgeous. Her skin is flawless and she always has a earthy, ethnic, well put together look.

    I think the only ingredient she needs to add to her pie is an inner strength from a self identity based in Christ. She is an ordained minister so I can say this. Celebrity Fit Club revealed that she does not have this. If she did then she would have not acted so nasty, negative and fearful. She also did an interview last year with Essence Magazine where she bragged about how controlling and jealous her son’s baby daddy was (can’t think of his name) saying that he knew how to keep his woman in check! Any time we confuse jealousy and control with love, we are sick in the head and have no or low self worth.
    Any pride & strength she shows is really smoke and mirrors.

    I am not saying that by improving her attitude she alone will change the entertainment industry or culture that spawned it. I think for her own health and spirit it would do her some good to raise her expectations. Heros, legends, and icons are known for breaking barriers. Usually they make a conscious decision to remove limitations in their own mind about what is possible for themselves.

  98. ^^^^ which she has a better position to do herself as she already IS in the industry!

    I was really rooting for her in the celebrity fit club and she really let me down.

  99. @ English Babe, your comments have made me realise that it’s true, there are alot of dark skinned black women at the top of their game.

    Colourism will never go away, but i know that there are beautiful dark sistas that my daughters can look up to.

    Love all my sistas in every shade! Peace!

  100. Mileka,

    I glad you took the time to point out that light skinned women have their share of discrimination because it’s not such a walk in the park as some of a darker hue might be content to believe. Is it beyond the belief of some that light skin Blacks are faced not only with “White racism” but intraracial discrimination at the very hands of some darker skin Blacks within the African-American community.
    If I didn’t know better I’d think there was some post slavery resentment due to the fact that the lighter skinned house slaves were relegated to work in the master’s home whereas the darker skinned field slaves were relegated to the fields as we all know by now. Sometimes I feel that some darker skinned Blacks hold us in higher contempt than those who create colorism. It’s ironic how many of “us” are so quick to quote Dr King ” …judged by the content of character rather than by the color of one’s skin” yet we have yet to truly grasp that concept while we grapple with the archaic foe of colorism.
    With all due respect to Mr. Stone’s notable vocal talents,perhaps her complexion isn’t the sole reason for her professional difficulties. Perhaps her problems involve her own insecurities over her dark complexion that she projects unto others. This is not to say that she didn’t make some valid points yet still she came off as a bitter Black women singing the “poor dark skin everybody is against me” blues. There are too many examples of successful and highly visible darker skin Blacks in the entertainment industry that span from Hattie McDaniels, Sidney Portier, Cicely Tyson to Denzel Washington to name a few. Instead of complaining and sulking and waving the “skin tone card”(there’s the general race card and then there’s the skin tone card), Ms. Stone should redirect her energy into continuing to build her professional music career.

  101. It’s always easier to blame one’s failures on anything but self.


  103. I think Angie is looking for an excuse. She is just not a pretty woman.
    Skin tone, lips, cheek bones, and eyes having nothing to do with it.
    Jill is pretty( never met her but her spirit seems pleasnt)- Angie seems a little frustrated 🙂

  104. You’re so right Sis. Stone, but who’s to blame in Follywood? Blacks are only seen in Hollywood in the form of Blackmales being comedic, and Blackfemales being sweated by interracially lustful, white males.
    Whence Blackfemales start to say, “Hey white producers and directors. “Where are the scenes with our A-A males as heroes, provocative males, and Black Family loving men;” until that time, it’s not the skin tone that’s so indifferent–it’s the roles, period.
    Just like A-A Sisters deal with sodomistic males doing their hair, dressing them, befriending them to every degree, the same goes with Gollywood. The gaydaistic (queer Jews) in Hollywood hate Black, Heterosexual males above everyone else. That hate us because they know they can’t have us, and they instinctively get the feeling that we don’t approve, respect, or like bing around them. As a real man, to a real man.
    Shake it off Sis Stone, and my other Queens. Until we start to define and build our own–like Earvin Magic Johnson has done in the business industry–we’ll forever be selling our children and selves short. Waiting and expecting the homoSINsual agenda loving, Euro-Jewish males to put us in respectful and provocative, starring roles. Dark-skinned or not.

  105. Angie, girl I have been listening to you since Vertical Hold! Your voice is strong, sexy and peaceful! Your vocals soothe and instruct! Great job! Now, this racism thing…Surely you know that this has been going on for yearssssss! Luther Vandross could not get a record deal, because of his looks…and we all know that Luther should have had 3 dogone deals, as he is one of the most beautiful voices ever! Unfortunately, discrimination doesn’t stop on certain levels…So many entertainers have made the mistake of thinking that they had arrived and that white America was going to play fair with them…NOT!!!! You were naive to think that it would change. I mean Patti Austin suffered this…Martha Wash, who was blatantly abused hits the biggest hurt bone for me…This world is crazy, fickle, and unkind…Girl pull your lip up, do what you do and don’t allow anyone to make you feel unworthy…The lord comes when he wants to, not when we want him to…your day is coming, hold on and believe! Love you and your voice…I mean that from the bottom up!

  106. @Aida

    Girl, I am so glad you feel me. You took the thoughts right out of my head. That is exactly what I was trying to get across and you stated way better than I ever could have expressed. Thank you for the informative comment and another perspective. (:

  107. I think enough people talked about the light/dark issue ,so I will highlight what everyone else said about her personality.

    From what I gathered on Fit Club, Angie wants to be in charge, and do things her way or else she wants nothing to do with it. She has a bunch of excuses. they even took her to a doctor and he said she is fit to excercise. the thing that killed it for me was when she wanted to be the captain of her team but was eating a pastrami sandwich at the same time she wants to declare leadership. I love her and the genre of music she represents. her voice and lyrics have empowered me. I wish she would take a dose of her own medicine.

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